A Debate betwist Differing people with different beliefs, but they come to one conclusion
I got wind that one of my favorite professors, Dr. Brad Harper, was going to debate Dr. Marcus Borg on Jesus, The Church, and Culture. Having been raised in the evangelical tradition, which means to think of Dr. Borg as an Satan incarnate, and Dr. Harper being my favorite professor, I had to go hear this debate. The following is the transcript I wrote for the Voice, though it sadly does not contain my own thoughts and feelings, those should soon follow.
A Multnomah Bible College professor debated leading Jesus Seminar scholar at Oregon State University on March 7.
Dr. Brad Harper, professor of theology, and Dr. Marcus Borg, Hundere professor of religion and culture at Oregon State University, accepted an invitation from The Socratic Club to debate “Jesus, the Church, and Culture: how differing views of Jesus affect the Church’s engagement of culture.”
Dr. Harper opened his 25-minute allotment by saying, “We are not here to re-argue the historical Jesus…. Marcus and I disagree on the identity of Jesus in some ways. Tonight, we have agreed to talk more about the ramifications of our differing views of Jesus.”
As Dr. Borg explained, “The story of Jesus is the most important story I know. How we tell the story matters.”
Dr. Borg’s talk offered five ways of telling the story of Jesus: Jesus the dying savior, Jesus the divine human, Jesus of the “Left Behind” series, Jesus the teacher and Jesus the proclaimer of the way and the kingdom.
Expressing a lack of excitement for Jesus the divine human, he said, “If Jesus is a super human, we cannot imitate him.” He borrowed a quote from Robert Capon’s book, “Hunting the Divine Fox,” where popular Christology was likened to Superman. Borg said, “Jesus, gentle, meek and mild, nearly gets himself done in for good with the kryptonite cross, but at the last minute struggles into the phone booth of the empty tomb, changes into his Easter suit and, with a single bound, leaps back into the planet heaven.”
Dr. Borg spent the majority of his time talking about Jesus of the “Left Behind” series. “When viewing Jesus through this lens,” Dr, Borg said, “Christian life becomes about being prepared and allows for a lack of concern about the world. What does the environment matter if Jesus is coming back in 50 years? What does justice matter if political institutions will soon be destroyed anyway? And war, well, war is part of what leads up to the coming of Jesus. For example to try to favor a peace settlement between Israel and the Palestinians might actually get in the way of the Second Coming.”
“The portrait of Jesus as teacher reduces the message of Jesus almost to something that can be put on Hallmark greeting cards,” Dr. Borg said.
Dr. Borg’s final view of Jesus was, Jesus as proclaimer of the way and the kingdom. Dr. Borg said he holds a very high view of the kingdom of God, “The kingdom of God is the transformation of the earth.” Taking the kingdom of God seriously leads to a “political vision strongly at variance with much of modern western culture, a passion for economic justice and is an anti-imperial vision of the world.” He concluded his talk by saying, “Christianity is the only major enduring religion whose founder was executed by the authorities. There is a political edginess built into [Christianity] from the beginning that has so often been domesticated and is still domesticated by these other ways to tell the story of Jesus.”
Dr. Harper argued that “the traditional view of God in the flesh does it, and does it better.” Dr. Harper explained that his view of God in the flesh engages culture because God is near, one can know God, and it shows the humanity of God. He also explained that the doctrinal Jesus engages culture and that Jesus was a social prophet.
“I think the biblical view of Jesus as God in the flesh engages culture more effectively,” Dr. Harper said, “[My view] is rooted in the value given to physical creation by the incarnation. God taking on flesh in Christ means that he came to redeem all of creation. Thus, in the big picture view of salvation, the body matters so we can engage people holistically, being interested in their physical health, their poverty, education, etc., not just in their eternal destiny. The earth matters so salvation includes the environment, calling on the church to preserve and save it for God’s glory since he reveals his glory through it and will ultimately restore it to perfection. If God actually took on creation in the human flesh of Jesus, these things matter a great deal.”
Dr. Harper also believes that an eschatology, which envisions a restored cosmos rather than spirit existence, calls for a more holistic view of salvation. Such an eschatological view draws humanity and the earth with its equality of gender, race, class, etc., back into the present in the church so that the church reflects these realities in the present,” Dr. Harper said.
Even though Dr. Harper and Dr. Borg have differing views of Jesus, both come to similar conclusions: Being a Christian is not about believing x, y and z about Christ, but about being in a relationship with Christ. Following Jesus leads to transformation of one’s self and the world.
This post was written under the influence of generic brand Day-Quil, while listening to the hasidic sounds of Matisyahu.
A Multnomah Bible College professor debated leading Jesus Seminar scholar at Oregon State University on March 7.
Dr. Brad Harper, professor of theology, and Dr. Marcus Borg, Hundere professor of religion and culture at Oregon State University, accepted an invitation from The Socratic Club to debate “Jesus, the Church, and Culture: how differing views of Jesus affect the Church’s engagement of culture.”
Dr. Harper opened his 25-minute allotment by saying, “We are not here to re-argue the historical Jesus…. Marcus and I disagree on the identity of Jesus in some ways. Tonight, we have agreed to talk more about the ramifications of our differing views of Jesus.”
As Dr. Borg explained, “The story of Jesus is the most important story I know. How we tell the story matters.”
Dr. Borg’s talk offered five ways of telling the story of Jesus: Jesus the dying savior, Jesus the divine human, Jesus of the “Left Behind” series, Jesus the teacher and Jesus the proclaimer of the way and the kingdom.
Expressing a lack of excitement for Jesus the divine human, he said, “If Jesus is a super human, we cannot imitate him.” He borrowed a quote from Robert Capon’s book, “Hunting the Divine Fox,” where popular Christology was likened to Superman. Borg said, “Jesus, gentle, meek and mild, nearly gets himself done in for good with the kryptonite cross, but at the last minute struggles into the phone booth of the empty tomb, changes into his Easter suit and, with a single bound, leaps back into the planet heaven.”
Dr. Borg spent the majority of his time talking about Jesus of the “Left Behind” series. “When viewing Jesus through this lens,” Dr, Borg said, “Christian life becomes about being prepared and allows for a lack of concern about the world. What does the environment matter if Jesus is coming back in 50 years? What does justice matter if political institutions will soon be destroyed anyway? And war, well, war is part of what leads up to the coming of Jesus. For example to try to favor a peace settlement between Israel and the Palestinians might actually get in the way of the Second Coming.”
“The portrait of Jesus as teacher reduces the message of Jesus almost to something that can be put on Hallmark greeting cards,” Dr. Borg said.
Dr. Borg’s final view of Jesus was, Jesus as proclaimer of the way and the kingdom. Dr. Borg said he holds a very high view of the kingdom of God, “The kingdom of God is the transformation of the earth.” Taking the kingdom of God seriously leads to a “political vision strongly at variance with much of modern western culture, a passion for economic justice and is an anti-imperial vision of the world.” He concluded his talk by saying, “Christianity is the only major enduring religion whose founder was executed by the authorities. There is a political edginess built into [Christianity] from the beginning that has so often been domesticated and is still domesticated by these other ways to tell the story of Jesus.”
Dr. Harper argued that “the traditional view of God in the flesh does it, and does it better.” Dr. Harper explained that his view of God in the flesh engages culture because God is near, one can know God, and it shows the humanity of God. He also explained that the doctrinal Jesus engages culture and that Jesus was a social prophet.
“I think the biblical view of Jesus as God in the flesh engages culture more effectively,” Dr. Harper said, “[My view] is rooted in the value given to physical creation by the incarnation. God taking on flesh in Christ means that he came to redeem all of creation. Thus, in the big picture view of salvation, the body matters so we can engage people holistically, being interested in their physical health, their poverty, education, etc., not just in their eternal destiny. The earth matters so salvation includes the environment, calling on the church to preserve and save it for God’s glory since he reveals his glory through it and will ultimately restore it to perfection. If God actually took on creation in the human flesh of Jesus, these things matter a great deal.”
Dr. Harper also believes that an eschatology, which envisions a restored cosmos rather than spirit existence, calls for a more holistic view of salvation. Such an eschatological view draws humanity and the earth with its equality of gender, race, class, etc., back into the present in the church so that the church reflects these realities in the present,” Dr. Harper said.
Even though Dr. Harper and Dr. Borg have differing views of Jesus, both come to similar conclusions: Being a Christian is not about believing x, y and z about Christ, but about being in a relationship with Christ. Following Jesus leads to transformation of one’s self and the world.
This post was written under the influence of generic brand Day-Quil, while listening to the hasidic sounds of Matisyahu.
posted by Jonathan Myers at 10:46 AM
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